Abduction Digest, Number 38 Friday, January 10th 1992 Today's Topics: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle Re: abductions Re: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle Jerusalem Syndrome Advice Re: abductions Re: abductions Re: abductions Re: abductions Re: If Ufo's Re: abductions ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Linda.Bird@f8.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Linda Bird) Subject: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle Date: 5 Jan 92 01:54:55 GMT Hi Mike, I've ben reading with interest all your posts with Sue Widemark. You mentioned the UFO CC International based in Seattle. There's a long article in the recent edition of the UFO News Clipping Service publication on Aileen and the UFOCCI in Seattle. It seems to me that group in Seattle is becoming more New Age and religion based . Aileen even admits (according to the article) that she thinks Elvis is still alive! That right there shreds all their credibility for me! Why do so many of these contactees start delving into metaphysics and Eastern religions, I wonder? I'd like to ask Aileen and her group why haven't they delved into an astronomy book instead? They're looking for answers to aliens in religion?? It seems to me that astronomy books would be a better place! Mike, I'd like to send you that article (it was originally pub. in the SEATTLE WEEKLY). Would you be kind enough to post your address? That article is a real eye-opener. Regards, Linda -- Linda Bird - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Linda.Bird@f8.n1012.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Doug Rogers) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 5 Jan 92 08:37:47 GMT Your research into the Mensa nonsense is greatly appreciated. Doug Rogers Echo Coordinator -- Doug Rogers - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Doug.Rogers@p0.f1.n606.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Schuyler) Subject: Re: UFO Contactee Center - Seattle Date: 7 Jan 92 03:56:00 GMT In a message to Mike Schuyler <01-04-92 18:54> Linda Bird wrote: LB> Mike, I'd like to send you that article (it was originally pub. in LB> the SEATTLE LB> WEEKLY). Would you be kind enough to post your address? That LB> article is a LB> real eye-opener. Linda! Thanks so much for your offer. But, uh...I have the article already! It was great. She lives in a trailer park near the Intl Airport flight path and works for Boeing, I live just across the water from Seattle, have toyed with the idea of going down there on a research project :-) Maybe someday. I get her publication, "The Missing Link," at least for this year until my subscription runs out. Well, I just wanted to see what it was. Really! (It wasn't my fault.) Thanks again... --Michael -- Michael Schuyler - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Schuyler@f201.n350.z1.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Jerusalem Syndrome Date: 8 Jan 92 15:11:04 GMT I took the liberty of cross-posting this from ParaNet General. It may have relevance to the abduction phenomenon. To: Keith Basterfield Message #: 2770 From: Sheldon Wernikoff Submitted: 30 Dec 91 21:21:00 Subject: JERUSALEM SYNDROME Status: Public Received: No Group: P_GEN (12) The following article is from The Wall Street Journal, 12/30/91, published by Dow Jones & Company, 200 Liberty Street, New York, NY 10281. ............................. JERUSALEM SYNDROME MAKES SOME VISITORS BELIEVE THEY'RE GOD Israeli Doctors Are Puzzled By the Temporary Illness; Dinner With Two Elijahs --- by Amy Dockser Marcus, staff reporter ............................. JERUSALEM - They come as tourists, hoping to sightsee and relax. But they end up shouting prophecies from street corners, walking around naked, and proclaiming themselves the Messiah. Local psychiatrists call the phenomenon "the Jerusalem syndrome", a form of hysteria that turns 50 to 200 tourists every year, many of them previously healthy, into would-be King Davids, Virgin Marys, and other biblical figures. "Jerusalem can literally drive some tourists crazy," says Yair Bar-El, the director of Kfar Shaul, the government mental health center in Jerusalem that, since the early '80s, has provided psychiatric care for all foreign tourists afflicted with the illness. IMAGE VS. REALITY Doctors aren't sure what causes the Jerusalem syndrome. Part of it is probably just that people are awed to be in a place that psychiatrist Eli Witztum, who has studied the syndrome, calls "the umbilical cord of the world." But more than that, experts speculate that the enormous dislocation that prompts people to believe they are biblical figures arises from the shock that the image and reality of the city are so far apart. "People come here expecting everyone to be wearing white robes and playing harps. Instead, they find a city in tension," says Jim Jerrish, project director of Bridges for Peace, a Jerusalem group promoting interfaith relations that sponsors a number of tourist groups. Tourists expecting to reflect in the quiet of an ancient church are often disappointed to find that it probably strides a traffic-choked roadway. Via Dolorosa, with its Stations of the Cross, is lined with Vendors hawking everything from Kodak film to cheap souvenirs. Most disconcerting is the fact that Jerusalem, the fabled city of peace, lives in an almost constant state of political stress. Jerusalem's 4,000 year old grip on the imagination of three major faiths has always made the city a magnet for madmen and eccentrics. The English woman who could be found on Mount Scopus waiting daily for the lords return with a hot cup of tea and the Dutch countess who built a huge building in the center of town to house the "hundred and forty and four thousand... children of Israel" in the Book of Revelations are well established parts of city lore. SOME THINK THEY'RE SATAN Nonetheless, the modern version of this phenomenon doesn't occur just among people with a history of psychiatric problems. Dr. Witztum, the Jerusalem psychiatrist who has been studying tourists afflicted with the illness, says that when a patient is admitted to Kfar Shaul, psychiatrists speak with the patient's family and doctors about past medical history - and often discover that they don't have prior psychiatric disorders. Gathering scientific data on the Jerusalem syndrome hasn't been easy. "Someone who thinks he's the Messiah just doesn't have the time to fill out a questionnaire," Dr. Witztum says. Still, a study of 89 former patients released earlier this year by Dr. Witztum and others revealed that nearly a third thought they were the Messiah. God came in a very distant second. Satan was third. "People tend to stay within their own religions. Jews prefer Abraham and King David. And we get a lot of Christians found wandering around the desert thinking they're John the Baptist," says Dr. Witztum. The Jerusalem syndrome tends to strike very quickly. It took only five days before a 33-year-old American vacationing here, a former Air Force cadet with no history of psychological problems, exchanged his clothes for a sword. He then ran naked, sword in hand, through the Arab quarter of the Old City shouting that God had instructed him to cure the blind. A 41-year-old German tourist, a secondary-school teacher, walked into his hotel's kitchen just a few days after arriving, declared that he was Jesus, and then went to file a complaint at the police station when the cook appeared skeptical. Some longtime residents of the city have even seen friends from abroad transformed while on vacation in Jerusalem. Rabbi David Rosen, director of interfaith relations at the Israel office of the Anti-Defamation League, once bumped into a college friend - who had been "a very stable, normal English public-school schoolboy" - standing outside a city gate dressed in sackcloth and ashes and exhorting mankind to repent. "I tried to convince him that God didn't want him to do this, but I didn't make any headway," says Rabbi Rosen. Mr. Jerrish of Bridges for Peace recalls a dinner party at a friend's house where two guests were tourists who, it turned out, both thought they were Elijah the Prophet. "They spent the whole dinner glaring at each other, accusing the other one of being an imposter," he says. FALSE PREGNANCY At Kfar Shaul, Dr. Bar-El brings in clerics, family members and local consulate representatives to speak with his patients in an effort to get them well enough to travel home. While most patients snap out of it after a few days of treatment and return to normal, some are more difficult to handle. One 36-year-old British woman, a London high school teacher, continued to claim she was carrying the son of Jesus, even after doctors at the hospital showed her physical exam revealed she wasn't pregnant. For the most part, the hospital is unable to do any follow-up once the tourists go back home. But Dr. Witztum did correspond for several years with one former patient, a man in his early 20s from Zurich. The man had been taken to the hospital a day or so after visiting a Jerusalem church. "He had stopped eating and was seeing Jesus Christ everywhere," Dr. Witztum says. "When he was brought into the hospital, there was a strange light on his face and an expression of elation. When I called his father, he was amazed. He said his son was very shy and inhibited." Soon, the young man went back to Switzerland, fully back to normal, and began studying at a university in Zurich. For years, Dr. Witztum received Christmas cards from him. Dr. Bar-El says that when people snap out of the syndrome, they remember the experience as very pleasant, and not traumatic. Still, Dr. Bar-El, whose one last name means "Son of God," says he usually stops short of telling patients they aren't who they think they are. After all, he says, "I'm not sure the patient will be any happier when he realizes that he's not God." ........................... End of Article -+- -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Speiser) Subject: Advice Date: 9 Jan 92 22:43:40 GMT A situation has arisen here that I need some advice on. An "abductee" has come to me with her story, some of which is consciously remembered and some of which is buried. She has rejected hypnosis, as she does not trust it - too much chance for confabulation. Yet she does have a sincere desire to find out the meaning of her recollections. And I have *no* desire to force my own particular -or any- agenda on her. She seems a prime candidate for a self-help group which I am considering forming here, but I'm not sure that's wise until her recollections have been explored in more depth. I guess the big question is, what advice does one give a potential abduction victim who has no desire for hypnosis? Jim -- Jim Speiser - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Jim.Speiser@p666.f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 10 Jan 92 10:54:00 GMT >That is laughable at best, unless you remove the words between superficial >and Christianity. I think Christianity is not alone in its appeal >to narrow-mindedness and superficiality. Right. I am narrow minded and you (just as strong opinion) are not! Now THAT is laughable or maybe one might cry because it's sad when one accuses someone else of something of which _he_ may be guilty. >My point, which you >have neatly skirted, is that structured religion has appeal particularly >to the uneducated or those of 'average intelligence.' I think the >Mensa claim is rather overblown for several reasons. And just what do you base this claim on? Your vast store of knowledge? Oh yes, that must be it. Like your great understanding of what Christianity teaches. If a surgeon had a similar vast store of knowledge, all hapless victims who fell under his knife would DIE. Why can't you admit that YOU believe what YOU believe and I believe what I believe and ... read my lips.. BOTH ARE VALID, OK? If you say anything else than that, then it is _you_ who are the narrow minded one, not myself! >I also know too many people of little thought >who are rabidly religious, and it is my observation that these people >appear to be hypnotized and seek in their religion the answer to >all questions great and small. Yes, and I know too many UFOnuts who are of little thought and as superstitous as hell so should I conclude that UFOLOGY must appeal to the uneducated superstitous fool? That's the conclusion you are making for religion! >And, for that matter, membership in >Mensa means you have passed a test and feel compelled to join a >so-called high-IQ organization, an interesting phenomenon in itsel4f. Elementary my dear Watson. Being surrounded by fools, the idea of being in a room which excludes a vast quantity of such fools is rather appealing... quite appealing. And I didn't 'pass' the test to get into MENSA. I took an IQ score from a previous test and submitted it. It far exceeds the qualification needed for MENSA (IQ 132), so you see I am really not that impressed with the figure. I came here to try and obtain some information. I asked some searching questions to try and extract this information from those supposedly in the 'know' about these things. I did not come here to be told I am a narrow minded so and so or that my belief system stinks, anymore than I expected to say that to someone else. I had never found any REAL positive information even providing reasonable suspicion that aliens have visited and/or abducted. I thought you folks could provide me with such but instead I got attacked for daring to doubt the vast quantity of anecdotal and somewhat not too believable data I have seen in the past on this subject. It's interesting to note that I asked the same searching questions about the Catholic church but unlike here, I got very definitive and intellectual answers. So, laugh away at religion, you fools... right now, it's looking a lot more convincing than your deal. TTFN -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 10 Jan 92 11:03:00 GMT >Please, stick to a scientific approach, or pass this echo by. Further >religious discussions will result in a second warning to get on >subject here. > A third warning will result in your being locked out. This is >part of the agreement you participate in by using these echos, and >should be posted on the board through which you have access. > >Asking the researchers here to accept religious rationnalizations >is NOT what this echo is about. Oh, no freedom of speech here, right? A scientific approach will knock YOU out of the water as well. In fact, it will knock you out of the water much quicker than it will Christianity. There is historical proof the man Jesus existed. There are many logical proofs that God exists as well... these are so respected - Thomas Acquinas for example.. that they are studied in secular universities. Proof for UFOS and abductions is anecdotal. This is NOT scientific. (and they call ME narrow minded... hrumph.). I just wanted to obtain some information. Are you saying I cannot question this but MUST accept that yes, because a bunch of people said so-and-so, it must have happened? Even though there has been NO observable evidence and no logical proofs thereof? That is truly blind acceptance if I ever heard of it. Well, if one must blindly accept your deal and not question it (and by the way, the scientific method does question ALL) then it is not really 'scientific' you want me to be. You want me to be a blind believer. You are worse than the fundies (I have never been locked out of a fundamentalist board even though Catholics ain't their favorite cup of tea). But do as you wish. I do have free speech. (if anyone would like to discuss this on a FREE SPEECH BBS where people don't get locked out for disagreeing or questioning... call: {Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400} {Sue} -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 10 Jan 92 11:15:00 GMT (you're such a friendly group!) >I called Mensa. I talked to their public >information officer. I discovered your statistic is ERRONEOUS. Well, whomever you talked to was not aware of this. And they DO have stats... maybe he just was not bothering with you. These stats were published in the MENSA directory as a matter of fact and yes, it is over 60 percent who claim a belief in God. This is obtained from the forms we fill out... oh, I see what might have happened.. you mentioned a study so whomever you were talking to didn't think of the demography which is obtained from the forms we fill out when we renew. >Superficial and unknowledgeable is exactly how I would characterize >your understanding of this entire phenomenon. This is interesting >for the rest of us to see in that it shows such a poor grasp of >the scientific method and of basic logical principles. It also >pretty well proves that your veracity is at an all time low. Why >should anyone believe anything you say when it has been shown you >use untruths to bolster your argument? No, you just didn't check the right thing because not being a member of MENSA, you wouldn't have known about the demographic data. I did a check on it because I wanted to start a SIG for Catholics but wanted to see if there would be any interest in it before I went through the work. A more intelligent answer to my claim from you would have been 'but yes, that is lower than that of the general population' (75-85 percent claim a belief in God.. I wonder what percentage claim a belief in UFO's) I wonder what percentage of MENSA claims a belief in UFO's.. this would be more difficult to obtain because it's not a question asked on the demographic data sheet we fill out for renewal. And in all of this, you have insulted me, been rude about my belief set but you have not PROVEN YOUR DEAL! Now, my dear, what else could I conclude but that there IS no proof. I am obviously getting locked out of here. IF you want to provide such proof, I am still interested. This can be books or whatever. If you have such a thing (which was my original reasons for asking searching questions), please do log on my BBS and post this proof. Thank you. {Sue} {Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 <300/1200/2400} -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 10 Jan 92 11:17:00 GMT >Your research into the Mensa nonsense is greatly appreciated. Even if his 'research' was erroneous? But of course.. it agrees with you, so it's great... -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: If Ufo's Date: 10 Jan 92 11:34:00 GMT re: if UFO's exist... That's a question I have asked a few times myself. Perhaps someone here will answer it... -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG (Sue Widemark) Subject: Re: abductions Date: 10 Jan 92 11:45:00 GMT Well hi there sweetness. I did some checking myself and could not find the 60 percent statistic I quoted in the lastest MENSA register. But I did find something of interest which I thought I'd share: 49 percent of Mensans claim a Christian orientation. And only 7 percent are agnostic, and 3.6 percent atheist! hahaha.. that's better than the 60 percent! Oh, and when you call to verify this, tell the public information person that he can read this in the 1989 MENSA Register, page I about the middle of the page. TTFN and I DON'T appreciate being called a liar... that is the rude-ist. But you don't have to worry about being locked out of the echo because you agree with the coordinator... *grin* {sue} {Cheese Whiz Wildcat! BBS 602-279-0793 - We don't do "Windows"} -- Sue Widemark - via FidoNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Sue.Widemark@f100.n1010.z9.FIDONET.ORG ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T******************* Submissions UUCP {ncar,isis,csn}!scicom!abduct Submissions DOMAIN abduct@scicom.alphacdc.com Admin Address abduct-request@shemtaia.weeg.uiowa.edu Mail to private Paranet/Fidonet addresses from the newsletters: DOMAIN firstname.lastname@paranet.org UUCP scicom!paranet.org!firstname.lastname ****************A**B**D**U**C**T**I**O**N****D**I**G**E**S**T*******************